1. I read the comments, and it was outright trolling. Linden Labs scores.

Posted at 12:57AM on Dec 8th 2006 by Nobody Fugazi

2. Naa, there's no trolling there, but YOU are a troll, and a menace, Nobody. Ugh.

Posted at 1:07AM on Dec 8th 2006 by Prokofy Neva

3. Someone pressing a seeming logical argument in comments, with a possible ulterior motive, is cause for banning? I prefer to be able to read these arguments and reach my own conclusion that to think that the information is being pre-packaged for my entertainment pleasure. That ain't the transparency that most of us expect from Web 2.0. I see you're writing about "issues" Tateru. You may be next.

Posted at 1:27AM on Dec 8th 2006 by Orlie Omegamu

4. >I prefer to be able to read these arguments and reach my own conclusion that to think that the information is being pre-packaged for my entertainment pleasure. That ain't the transparency that most of us expect from Web 2.0.

Thank you, that's how it should be.

>I read the comments, and it was outright trolling. Linden Labs scores.

No thank you, this is not how Web 2.0 should be. In fact, it pre-dates even Web 1.0, and even Meatworld v.1959. It's like the 30s, the idea that you will tribally control people's thoughts and speech and set up some sort of game where one power entity "scores" by suppressing some lesser entity's critical comments. And certainly YOU shouldn't get to decide.

Posted at 2:14AM on Dec 8th 2006 by Prokofy Neva

5. Prok... at some point... it will come to you. That we're not out to get you, but you're getting on a lot of people's nerves. At some point, you might wake up and say, "hey, maybe I'm not perfect. Maybe I am doing something wrong".

You see - your posts were (1) out of context and off topic and (2) abrasive.

You see, the difference is that I said that I read what you wrote and that it was trolling. I did not call YOU a troll. That difference sets things apart, and certainly sets you and I apart. In essence, you're trolling here. If your best response is along the lines of 'Nuh-uh, you're the troll' then you have issues. :-)

If I'm the menace, count your blessings. If you were right, I'd defend you. But in this case you were wrong.

Admitting being wrong takes a big person. I'd respect you more if you said, "well, maybe I overdid it".

Posted at 3:26AM on Dec 8th 2006 by Nobody Fugazi

6. It was easy enough to ignore if you wanted to. Nothing outrageously offensive that required the taking away of any privileges.

Posted at 3:29AM on Dec 8th 2006 by Orlie Omegamu

7. I don't believe Prokofy should have been banned either.

I think Prokofy is strongly opinionated about SL just as are many people. Prokofy's opinions contrast strongly with those of a more "tekki wiki" mindset, and it causes tensions. It's a very good thing, because it forces a lot of discussion and makes people think harder about the important social aspects of the changing technology.

For a while external forums have been a good middle ground, but it seems even they cannot deal with the catalyzing abilities of Prokofy Neva.

Posted at 5:45AM on Dec 8th 2006 by Baba

8. This is like a journalist being banned from a press conference for asking questions that aren't on message. Not that that'd ever happen, eh?

Sad to see it happening on the Linden Blog.

Posted at 6:18AM on Dec 8th 2006 by Marcus

9. Any sane, normal, rational person reading this thread, who is not part of the little clique of fanboyz and aspiring fanboyz like you, Nobody, can see there is no "trolling" here, and that if people get to pile on and make insulting commentary to me and use arguments against me, why, my responding and citing counterarguments isn't "trolling," it's just a debate. You want so desperately to fit and belong, Nobody...

No, I did nothing wrong, and I don't bow down to your efforts to make me conform to your little tekkie tribe. The smart people will be along any minute now...just wait 'til the world grows!

Posted at 8:16AM on Dec 8th 2006 by Prokofy Neva

10. It's scary, really, when people like you try to take over, Nobody, because everyone can see that even within the silly confines of the Linden Blog rules, which shouldn't exist in a normal democratic society anyway, there isn't any of this "trolling" that you imagine -- many people read it and go, huh? Look at their comments. But you imagine that just to keep yourself in power, you can make judgements, and push away any dissent of your rigid ideology by trying to minimize it as "trolling". It's really very troublesome, and one more indication why people like you need to be fought to the hilt, and defeated, because you cannot be allowed to take over the Metaverse, where a lot more people will be spending a lot more time.

Posted at 8:18AM on Dec 8th 2006 by Prokofy Neva

11. While the ethics of banning someone from the official blog for spouting his/her mouth off are indeed in question, the comments at hand do look like trolling. There are ways of playing devil's advocate without making it sound like an attack, ways of doing it with tact, that the individual at hand has not seemed capable of.

Posted at 9:45AM on Dec 8th 2006 by Patience Xie

12. Patience, take off your rose-coloured glasses, and read the other posts. Like this one:

"I for one hope you DO NOT spend precious time talking about libsecondlife and falseAlarmBot."

That's not inciting and trolling, claiming a device that cost people RL loss of income (because they closed their stores in fear, or refunded rentals in fear, or concluded creation in SL is not protected and gave up) -- that's ok? That's not a troll against my perfectly reasonable paragraph question to Cory? Don't be ridiculous. I would never have to post another thing after my original paragraph if the other posters weren't nasty, insighting, trollsters *themselves* inciting hatred against *me*. And that's how it is always done. The Lindens -- and you -- turn a blind eye to the real haters in a thread, and pick very selectively on those espousing a contrary opinion.

Or take this line, from the same trollster, Alexander Reagant:

"@Prokofy: I won’t bother debating as we both obviously have set opinions. All I will say is if defending freedom of knowledge and speech is aiding and abetting then guilty as charged :-)"

That's trolling and incitement, claiming that because I've demanded accountability from a secretive griefing group reverse-engineering the client, is someone suppressing freedom. He can get off a remark like that, lob it at me in incitement and hatred, and that's fine with you, with your finely-tuned antennae for trolling?? Huh?

Or take this line:

"How very Republican of you ;-)"

Incitement, trolling, personal insult, name-calling -- Alexander Reagant calls me a "Republican" (I'm actually a registered Democrat) merely because I've called libsecondlife to account, and the Lindens to account.

And this is ok? And Alexander Reagant gets to smugly remain on this forum? Could you justify that, Nobody Fugazi, with your "Linden 1, Troll 0" snotty remarks? Could you justify that, Patience Xie?

Honestly, the sheer blindness and one-sided tendentious of people in looking at these issues is staggering.

Posted at 10:54AM on Dec 8th 2006 by Prokofy Neva

13. Unless I'm missing something, according to the "Official Linden Blog Guidelines for Blog Comments" located here: (http://blog.secondlife.com/guidelines-for-blog-comments/) the sanction for flaming, trolling or personal attacks is deletion of the offending post and not the banning of the poster:

"Negative or contrary opinions are welcome as long as they don’t violate the common rules of netiquette. Those that do will be edited, or if necessary, deleted.

"Comments will be edited or deleted if they meet the following definitions of flaming, trolling, or personal attacks:

flaming - messages which are hostile or deliberately insulting
trolling - making comments intended to induce an angry response or disrupt the flow of discussion
personal attacks - derogatory, profane or offensive messages directed toward a specific individual."

I would suggest that the appropriate "punishment" for Prokofy would be to have all his comments held in the moderation queue for review rather than a blanket ban. I, for one, often find his comments thought provoking and informative (and yes, agree that sometimes he goes a bit too far).

Niko

Posted at 11:04AM on Dec 8th 2006 by niko donburi

14. Prok - no one is trying to 'take over'. You simply have to get used to the fact that SL has expanded, there are more people, and you're not the center of attention all the time. Not everyone agrees with you. Deal with it.

What you have demonstrated in this thread is why you were banned from the blog. You may think it's strong punishment, as do others, but hey - that's life. Move on, or continue to make the point for others.

Posted at 12:12PM on Dec 8th 2006 by Nobody Fugazi

15. Thank the stars! I don't know who this Proko Loco yukster is, but I'm tired of seeing his name plastered all over these boards with this insane agenda he is pushing. I've only been in SL for 5 weeks now, but his name comes up more often than the ESC, Hamlet, Phillip Rosedale, or Anse Chung. I guess in one light, you have to give the guy credit. If Second Life is partially a "game" of PR and self promotion, this guy is tops. However I'm not so sure I buy the addage of any press is good press. Personally, I think he needs to go back on his meds. Screaming about everyone out to get him, Lindens trying to crush democracy, secret deals between developers. Mucho paranoia. You're only paranoid if they're not really out to get ya though right? C'mon though, really? Who here honestly believes that Second Life is a "democratic society"? Are any of us that naive? Linden Labs is a simple group of people with a product. A product that they'd likely wish to have less responsibility over by opening the entire platform up, servers and all. Prokojoke, the "metaverse" is not "real". It can be ported elsewhere. It's just data. No one really has control over data. Right now, the servers are locked under someone's control, but this platform will not be Lindens forever by its very nature. Also, business investments are risky, especially on the edge of new technology. Just because you spend money on something, doesn't suddenly make your existence more valid, and your "business" more important. It's all risk. In "business" there are no real protections and no guarantees, and you either deal with what happens and roll with life, or you go insane like yourself and manifest paranoid delusions. Now go see a doctor, and have your meds increased.

Posted at 1:34PM on Dec 8th 2006 by Pyutaros Achterbahn

16. As goofball as some of Prok's ideas can be, I completely disagree with the banning from blog comments. I've been doing this blog thing for too long, and it's one of the cardinal rules.

My definition of trolling is far worse than THAT. Sheesh.

Posted at 3:08PM on Dec 8th 2006 by Eric Rice

17. Nobody, I've long gotten used to SL growing by leaps and bounds, and I continue to speak my mind. So do you. The difference between me and you is that you imagine that you can ally with oppressive factions of Lindens to suppress other residents in order to prevail. I don't believe in such suppression. I believe in freedom of speech; this could be interpreted far more fairly and evenly even under their TOS. You'd like to be a special insider and wield the power of the state against people you don't like; I don't wish either .

No, quite a few people agreed with me about libsecondlife; furthermore, this jerk "Chris" who refuses to give his SL name like a man, as well as others, kept insulting me, baiting me, and trolling incessantly. All I did was cite counter-arguments. That's not making other people agree with you or insisting only you are right; it's merely citing counter-arguments. See, that's what you're afraid of -- debate that takes place not as a mere articulation of your set of premises, but actually involves real debate and challenge. You're used to pontificating a bunch of premises to your colleagues and bosses in tekkie-land -- the program is either right or wrong, works or doesn't, black or white. But other areas of human endeavour involve much less rigidity and far more flexibility and tolerance.

You are intolerant, if you believe in taking the side of oppressive Lindens to silence criticism about a Linden-backed rogue group in SL.

Pluto-Pyuto is typical of one of the strong-arming tekkies who tries all kinds of discredited rhetorical tricks like claiming someone is a self-promoter, or in need of "meds" blah blah blah. Why not face up to the arguments? The Lindens did not open source their program. They blessed reverse engineering by a tiny elite, many of whom in fact are rampant griefers; they even include those who crash the grid. And like...that's ok???

And tekkies like Pluto are always trying to dumb down and diminish someone by claiming they are trying to advance themselves or "make their business more valid," which is of course arrant bullshit. I do no such thing; there are all kinds of people, issues, classes in SL. I'm one of them.

I'm hardly insane or paranoid; I have been working hard in SL for 2 years, taking great risks and rolling with many punches. What have you accomplished in 5 weeks, big stuff?

The idea that *you* in your hectoring, hortatory way get to determine the nature of SL for others ("it's just transfer of data") is just as silly that you would get to determine the nature of RL for others ("it's just percussive air, not speech with meaning").

Prokofy

Posted at 3:12PM on Dec 8th 2006 by Prokofy Neva

18. Here's an even better one, and possibly quite as feasible. After being snubbed for years by groups that didn't want him, and finding his weak rental business model beginning to flounder in the face of rising competition in the SL business environment, Prokofy decided to finally gain vengeance upon those he felt had looked down upon him for too long. He had tried many times logging in as various alts and griefing the system, trying to frame those he despised. Sometimes he would even log into forums under false names to support his long rants and to build support for the downfall of the evil Lindens and their pets the LibSL, but to no avail.

He had been jealously watching the evil libsecondlife with a close eye for some time now, and through his network of paid spies he had finally found the perfect tool to complete his plans. Second Life had been slowly slipping away from his control, and he needed something to sway the tide and raise himself to a respected controlling status against the Lindens.

LibSL it seems had been designing a tool which could reproduce the data stream that was sent to the client and return it to the server. Prokofy realized this was his chance, and that with a very simply modification, he could create a doomsday weapon to bring Second Life to its knees. Meanwhile, he had been securing his financial future by developing a defense against his ultimate weapon. He knew about all the demos going on for the new LibSL technology, so he timed it perfectly. He unleashed CopyBot under one of his many alts and then made windfall profits under other alts selling the CopyBot Assassin. All the while, he furthered his agenda of keeping SL a closed system where he could forever be the most powerful, and where the possibility of an Open Source technology to benefit all would never exist.

Really get a life my friend. The Linden Blog is for whatever they say it's for. Post off topic and rant as much as you do, get banned. Just like I may eventually get banned from any number of blogs if my posts are considered intrusive and annoying. Blog owner's discretion. This blog is of course about how we feel about you getting banned. And there are many valid opinions here as well, for and against you banning.

And then there's you. And that's the only "strong-arm" I see here. Anyone dares to say anything that conflicts with what you believe in, and here you are. Trolling the blog to ensure that your version of reality shall always come out on top. Though granted, that's what debate is. You just have a very direct, abrasive, and insulting way of debating. You debate with insults and jibes, muchn like myself at times. Though I am not claiming to be a world class debater as you are. You debate through nullification of credibility, you sock people into categories that you feel you have invalidated in the past and claim that their opinion is therefore invalid.

The one thing you don't debate with Prokofy, is a point. With all the nonsense and hyperbolic liturgy that spews out of your keyboard, one would think that there would have to be some point. But there isn't. It's just one random connection leading into the next, and anyone could suddenly fall into the category of a conspirator or oppressor. "You're like a chatty cathy doll that pulls its own string."

I am here for you. If you are upset because no one will debate you, it's probably because they feel sorry for you. But me, I'm new. I don't really know anything about SL. And I am still confident that I will bring your arguments crashing down around your flapping gums. Let's make it televised. Let's have all the podcasters there. C'mon Prok! This is the media attention you've been waiting for! Finally the world will know about Linden Labs evil plot to control the development of a product that they created. The Herald will be so proud of you.

Prokofy versus newbie "tekkie". Prokofy versus the fascist. Prokofy the savior of truth versus the implementor of social slavery. Let me tell you what I've accomplished in five weeks that you still can't do after two years. I can see through the web of delusional schizophrenia that surronds your thought processes. Hilarious.

Posted at 5:41PM on Dec 8th 2006 by Pyutaros Achterbahn

19. For once, I actually agree with Porkofy Neva.

Posted at 6:34PM on Dec 8th 2006 by Jennifer McLuhan

20. I think your absurd parody of a take-over could never be something I'd do, because this sort of thing is beyond me to do technically, "LibSL it seems had been designing a tool which could reproduce the data stream that was sent to the client and return it to the server.". I wouldn't even know how to get started on learning how to do a thing like that, let alone doing it.

My points are pretty simple -- I didn't do anything wrong, and as Boss Meltniz has aptly pointed out, there isn't even a punishment listed in the new (or old) blog guidelines that talk about banning. I haven't had more than 2 posts removed in the months I've been posting regularly. They say they remove posts, they don't say that they ban people. You need to inform people of the law and the punishments properly in any law-based state -- this is totally arbitrarily.

My other point is that even under the silly notions of "trolling" that fanboyz perpetuate, I didn't troll -- I responded with arguments against various concepts -- like claims that "I'm a Republican" would be met with "No, I'm a registered Democrat" etc.

My rentals aren't "weakened by big business" unless Century 21 is really selling parcels -- the entire world, however, has faced a severe erosion and beating.

I'm happy to debate anybody any time. I don't care if you are a tekkie and have built a scripted gyrating Taj Mahal that heats up your toast, climbs Everest without oxygen, and saves Darfu in the morning. Each person does what they can within their scope -- I'm happy I've contributed to the fullest in the niche I am in.

People who need to call others delusional or schizophrenic open up questions about their own mental health, frankly.

Posted at 7:09PM on Dec 8th 2006 by Prokofy Neva