Yesterday I reported on the apparent ban on photography in the Kokomo sim. I had been to the sim and picked up a notecard from the sim, which included the information that filming and still photography were banned without prior written permission from the sim owners.

I had intended to talk to the sim owners and Linden Lab when they came online around 5pm UK time, but shortly before that I was contacted by CaveCub Milk, who started out our conversation by accusing me of not checking the facts. I had a fairly long conversation with him, during which I understood that the intention was to ban stealing of textures and taking of photographs of avatars appearing in the sim, and recording of live music. I assumed that this would be the end of it -- he had understood that the notecard DID ban photography, and that I had reported it accurately, and as a result, would revise the notecard.

I was therefore somewhat surprised to come online this morning to find a posting from the same person accusing me again of not getting my facts right, on the blog, without any indication that it might be the notecard which was at fault. I posted a replying comment. I was then contacted in world by the same person accusing me once again of not checking my facts. In the course of a long conversation (which yes, folks, I am about to inflict on you in its entirety) I made no headway at all. Eventually I got CaveCub's permission to post the relevant contents of the two conversations in SL to the blog, which appear below. In the interests of not appearing to have edited the conversations, I have not corrected the mistakes or taken out the odd SL comment etc. I have broken off the first conversation at the point where our conversation was no longer about the posting.

It seems that this is the only thing that will satisfy CaveCub Milk, although I am highly doubtful whether people will draw the conclusions he hopes for. I leave you, gentle reader, to draw your own conclusions.First conversation January 2, 2007
[[16:46] CaveCub Milk: nice article, it would have been more professional to probably ask a few more questions and get a clear deffinition as to what the notice is about
[16:47] CaveCub Milk: i see you have taken a picture without asking.. but rest assured as long as you do not claim the texture is yours or try to make money off of it you are perfectly fine :)
[16:47] CaveCub Milk: on the other hand recordings and photos of the musicians??? You will have to check with them about that.
[16:47] Caliandris Pendragon: I am not a professional, just a blogger...and I did say I was going to ask about it
[16:47] CaveCub Milk: the notice releases us from that responsibility
[16:47] Caliandris Pendragon: what recordings of musicians? It's silly though
[16:48] CaveCub Milk: in other words the musicians cannot come back and sue us because we allowed you to record them
[16:48] Caliandris Pendragon: you have the notice on the decking and people could come in and take pictures without ever reading it
[16:48] CaveCub Milk: oh its quite easy to record video and audio in SL
[16:48] CaveCub Milk: and we aren't responsible if you do basically.
[16:48] CaveCub Milk: its at the landing spot.. and scans the entire pub
[16:48] CaveCub Milk: you automatically get one if you are in range and have not in the past 24hrs
[16:48] Caliandris Pendragon: nooo
[16:49] Caliandris Pendragon: I landed near to the clockl thing
[16:49] CaveCub Milk: it remembers those who have gotten one
[16:49] Caliandris Pendragon: and didn't get a note card until I went through to the decking
[16:49] CaveCub Milk: yes there isn't one over there yet
[16:49] CaveCub Milk: but there will be.
[16:49] Caliandris Pendragon: It will dissujade people from visiting the sim
[16:49] CaveCub Milk: want to know the reasoning behind it?
[16:49] Caliandris Pendragon: yes please
[16:50] CaveCub Milk: 1. people taking photos here, taking them into photoshop and creating a texture which happens dailiy in SL
[16:50] CaveCub Milk: are not permitted to do so and make money off of our textures that we created.
[16:50] Caliandris Pendragon: only a small number of people will do anything like that - and those that will won't be dissauded by a notice
[16:51] Caliandris Pendragon: basically
[16:51] Caliandris Pendragon: dissuaded
[16:51] CaveCub Milk: 2. If you record, photograph etc the musicians.. that is not our fault and the musicians may or may not get you for it.. but we are released from that resonsibility
[16:51] CaveCub Milk: that part is the musicians resonsibility not ours.
[16:51] CaveCub Milk: its been there for months and it is disuading nobody trust me.
[16:52] CaveCub Milk: and if you read what LL's has posted about DMCA you will find they are telling content creators to do this
[16:52] CaveCub Milk: so we are
[16:52] CaveCub Milk: and i don't imagine it will be too long before others will do the same thing
[16:52] CaveCub Milk: do you seriously think Dell, Microsoft, Pontiac, Duran Duran and all the corp entities coming here are going to let you rip off their stuff???
[16:52] Caliandris Pendragon: I don't rip anyone's stuff off
[16:52] CaveCub Milk: stop and think about that for a second.
[16:53] CaveCub Milk: no, not saying you are.
[16:53] CaveCub Milk: or that you do
[16:53] Caliandris Pendragon: and nore do 95% of the other people
[16:53] CaveCub Milk: but some do
[16:53] Caliandris Pendragon: the people who are criminal and do, will
[16:53] CaveCub Milk: well those that don't are fine aren't they :)
[16:53] CaveCub Milk: and those that do have been warned.
[16:53] Caliandris Pendragon: but you will be upsetting the 95 % who don't
[16:53] CaveCub Milk: simples as that really
[16:53] Caliandris Pendragon: in order to scare the 5% who won't care
[16:53] CaveCub Milk: not hardly it hasn't disuaded anyone from coming here
[16:53] CaveCub Milk: in fact we have more and more people everyday
[16:54] Caliandris Pendragon: and everyone knows it isn't in your interest to prosecute everyone who infringes the photography ban
[16:54] CaveCub Milk: those that don't do that don't have any reason to be disuaded or any reason to worry about anything.
[16:54] Caliandris Pendragon: yeah they are probably like me coming to check out these weird people who think they can ban photography
[16:54] CaveCub Milk: i personally don't care what pictures you take
[16:54] Caliandris Pendragon: it is silly to threaten me with the law for taking a photograph
[16:54] CaveCub Milk: just don't be selling them and claiming that they are your creations.. that's where the line is cali
[16:54] Caliandris Pendragon: yes but it undermines your credibility
[16:55] Caliandris Pendragon: and the company's credibility
[16:55] CaveCub Milk: that's a matter of opinion
[16:55] Caliandris Pendragon: especially in Europe
[16:55] CaveCub Milk: well unfortunaley we don't cater to just one country in SL
[16:55] CaveCub Milk: sad but true
[16:55] Caliandris Pendragon: I think it is a big mistake, honestly
[16:55] CaveCub Milk: and we don't cater to just the 95% who aren't thieves either.
[16:55] CaveCub Milk: i wish we did but the fact is.. we don't
[16:56] Caliandris Pendragon: the point is...the people who won't rip you off don't need to be told not to
[16:56] CaveCub Milk: so we have to take a real world approach to things sadly.
[16:56] CaveCub Milk: blow it off you have nothing to worry about
[16:56] CaveCub Milk: its not meant for you
[16:56] Caliandris Pendragon: and those that will are going to whatever you say about DMCA etc
[16:56] CaveCub Milk: lol
[16:56] Caliandris Pendragon: and...what do you have that is worth ripping off, really?
[16:57] CaveCub Milk: that too is a matter of opinion cali
[16:57] Caliandris Pendragon: I realise that
[16:57] CaveCub Milk: i could say the same about your creations now couldn't i?
[16:57] Caliandris Pendragon: but I think it is a real overreaction to the threat of rip off
[16:57] Caliandris Pendragon: of course you could
[16:57] Caliandris Pendragon: and it would be true
[16:57] CaveCub Milk: no it is a real world approach to the threat
[16:57] CaveCub Milk: and is what LL's recommended.
[16:57] Caliandris Pendragon: people can rip off the odd texture, etc...I don't think LL would have said no photography or you get sued
[16:58] CaveCub Milk: well how do you rip off a texture?
[16:58] CaveCub Milk is typing...
[16:58] CaveCub Milk: you take a picture of it.. pull it into photoshop etc etc.. very simple
[16:58] Caliandris Pendragon: screenshot
[16:58] CaveCub Milk: so in other words photos of your friends blah blah that is all perfectly fine.
[16:58] CaveCub Milk: i think you are taking it way way too extreme
[16:58] Caliandris Pendragon: if I were a rip off artist what I would take is a screenshot or use Open GL
[16:58] CaveCub Milk: exactly
[16:58] CaveCub Milk: which is fine also
[16:58] CaveCub Milk: go for it
[16:59] Caliandris Pendragon: I don't rip anyone off
[16:59] CaveCub Milk: just don't try to sell it here or in the real world.
[16:59] Caliandris Pendragon: and I wouldn't
[16:59] CaveCub Milk: then again.. you have nothing to worry about :)
[16:59] CaveCub Milk: nor do 95% of the people here :)
[16:59] Caliandris Pendragon: but I feel very annoyed by your notice...I shall ask the lindens about their attitude to it
[16:59] CaveCub Milk: so just disregard the notice.
[16:59] CaveCub Milk: go ahead
[16:59] CaveCub Milk: we are in full rights to post such things
[17:00] Caliandris Pendragon: I don't know about that
[17:00] CaveCub Milk: and if you read the official LL's blog look back to copybot
[17:00] CaveCub Milk is typing...
[17:00] Caliandris Pendragon: SL gives everyone the capability to take photographs and there is nothing in the TOS or anywhere else about not being able to take them
[17:00] CaveCub Milk: "sim owners must post those notices" in order to pursue a DMCA case.
[17:00] CaveCub Milk: that's the point you are missing YOU CAN TAKE PHOTOS.. just don't sell them
[17:01] CaveCub Milk: nobody can stop you from taking photos LOL
[17:01] CaveCub Milk is typing...
[17:01] Caliandris Pendragon: notices that you retain copyright in your work are one thing...that's my point
[17:01] CaveCub Milk: take all you want i don't care.
[17:01] CaveCub Milk: and that's not what we are trying to do
[17:01] Caliandris Pendragon: you undermine the whole thing if you try to do the impossible
[17:01] CaveCub Milk: just don't resell the textures or the photose.
[17:01] CaveCub Milk: photos
[17:01] Caliandris Pendragon: but your notice actually says you need permission in writing to take still photographs
[17:01] CaveCub Milk: really simple
[17:01] Caliandris Pendragon: which is silly
[17:02] CaveCub Milk: of the artists.. you very well might.. you'd have to talk with them about their policies
[17:02] CaveCub Milk: which the notice also says
[17:02] Caliandris Pendragon: that's silly also...
[17:02] Caliandris Pendragon: recordings are one thing
[17:02] Caliandris Pendragon: pictures of avatars are another
[17:02] CaveCub Milk: avatars are not just avatars
[17:02] Caliandris Pendragon: I take pictures all over SL for SLI and have never had anyone object
[17:02] CaveCub Milk: they are in world representations of someone else in the real world.
[17:03] Caliandris Pendragon: until now
[17:03] Caliandris Pendragon: I can make a Suzanne Vega avatar and noone can stop me
[17:03] Caliandris Pendragon: so stopping me taking a picture of suzanne vega in SL is just silly
[17:03] CaveCub Milk: you sure can.
[17:03] CaveCub Milk: but i wouldn't advise you to try to sell that avatar
[17:03] Caliandris Pendragon: I don't rip people off
[17:04] Caliandris Pendragon: I have already told you that
[17:04] CaveCub Milk: i know this
[17:04] CaveCub Milk: i know you don'
[17:04] CaveCub Milk: don't
[17:04] Caliandris Pendragon: but I can make avatars which look like Suzanne Vega and sell them
[17:04] Caliandris Pendragon: without fear of retribution
[17:04] CaveCub Milk: i doubt that.
[17:04] Caliandris Pendragon: it isn't possible to make anyone look exactly like they do in RL, and no one can prove my aunt suzanne isn't the avatar
[17:05] CaveCub Milk: that is true however it is different with custom created textures
[17:05] CaveCub Milk: textures not avatars
[17:05] Caliandris Pendragon: oh I totally agree with you
[17:05] CaveCub Milk: yay you get my point then
[17:05] Caliandris Pendragon: I am not advocating that anyone should rip off textures
[17:05] Caliandris Pendragon: pictures of avatars and sims are not the same as textures though
[17:05] CaveCub Milk: take all the pictures you want hon... just don't rip off textures... you do get it!!!
[17:05] CaveCub Milk: you and the other 95% have nothing to worry about LOL
[17:05] Caliandris Pendragon: then you are making your sim look ridiculous by appearing to say you can't take pictures
[17:06] CaveCub Milk: i think you freaked out and got paranoid for no reason really.
[17:06] Caliandris Pendragon: you need to make the distinction
[17:06] CaveCub Milk: well perhaps i will talke to the attorneys about rewording the notice then
[17:06] Caliandris Pendragon: it says no still photography without prior written permission, doesn't it?
[17:06] CaveCub Milk: its been many months since i have actually read it i will have to check and then if it needs to be more clear i will have that done :)
[17:06] CaveCub Milk: no worries.
[17:07] Caliandris Pendragon: thanks :-)
[17:07] CaveCub Milk: but you ARE free to take photos anytiime you wish.
[17:07] CaveCub Milk: its basically just a warning to texture thieves that's all it is.
[17:07] CaveCub Milk: so snap away :)
[17:08] Caliandris Pendragon: then I think it owuld be good to have that clear on the notecard really, because we got several people tipping us off that photography was banned, so other people read it that way too
[17:08] Caliandris Pendragon: tsk and I started a fighting fund to defend myself in court and everything!
[17:08] CaveCub Milk: ok sure, i will have a look :)
[17:08] CaveCub Milk: omg LOL
[17:08] CaveCub Milk: don't worry about that
[17:09] CaveCub Milk: taking photos is fine
[17:09] Caliandris Pendragon: :-)
[17:09] CaveCub Milk: just don't let me see you selling our textures somewhere ;)
[17:09] CaveCub Milk: LOL
[17:09] Caliandris Pendragon: never would
[17:09] CaveCub Milk: i know that
[17:09] CaveCub Milk is typing...
[17:09] CaveCub Milk: and everyone should be.
[17:09] CaveCub Milk: its sad some aren't
[17:09] CaveCub Milk: that's because you are respectful of people's creativity here.
[17:09] Caliandris Pendragon: if I give a texture I have bought to someone, I always either go buy it again or expunge it from my set
[17:09] CaveCub Milk: right me too
[17:10] CaveCub Milk: mostly i just create my own or have angel or hooper make me what i am needing.
[17:10] Caliandris Pendragon: I have on occasions bought four copies of the same full mods texture for that reason...I would never rip anyone off knowingly
[17:10] CaveCub Milk: me either
[17:10] CaveCub Milk: and i would never sue anyone without good reason either.
[17:10] CaveCub Milk: its silly and counterproductive
[17:10] Caliandris Pendragon: jolly good :-)
[17:11] CaveCub Milk: i will have a look at the note though and send it to the attorneys for more clarification.
[17:11] CaveCub Milk: if anything at all.. thank you for calling this to my attention so i can have it addressed.
[17:12] CaveCub Milk: by the way i have a story for you if you want it
(conversation goes off topic at this point)

Second conversation January 3, 2007
[3:15] CaveCub Milk: must we continue or would it be better to just post something saying that we spoke and we are reviewing the notecard etc?
[3:15] CaveCub Milk: i personally will leave that up to you.
[3:15] Caliandris Pendragon: WELL i AM PRETTY CROSS THAT YOU ACCUSED ME OF NOT CHECKING MY FACTS
[3:15] CaveCub Milk: YOU DID NOT!!
[3:15] Caliandris Pendragon: I put what you put in your notecard, no more no less
[3:15] CaveCub Milk: and if you did?? WHEN AND WITH WHO??
[3:15] Caliandris Pendragon: the fact that your notecard doesn't say what you intended is not MY fault
[3:15] CaveCub Milk: NO but not checking your facts and going to the source????
[3:16] CaveCub Milk: THAT IS YOUR FAULT!!
[3:16] CaveCub Milk: you should have done your job better.
[3:16] CaveCub Milk: look i am helping you
[3:16] CaveCub Milk: you should learn from this.
[3:16] Caliandris Pendragon: My job is blogger, not reporter
[3:16] Caliandris Pendragon: and you are not helping yourself
[3:16] CaveCub Milk: and do your job more thouroughly.
[3:16] Caliandris Pendragon: I will publish the full notecard, conversations and everyt
[3:16] CaveCub Milk: good
[3:16] Caliandris Pendragon: everything that has passed between us if you force me to
[3:16] CaveCub Milk: so what
[3:16] CaveCub Milk: i have apologized and even agreed and thanked you.
[3:17] Caliandris Pendragon: so it makes you look stupid
[3:17] CaveCub Milk: go for it
[3:17] Caliandris Pendragon: I tried very hard not to do that
[3:17] CaveCub Milk: i have apologized, agreed with you and agreed to check out the wording
[3:17] Caliandris Pendragon: which is why I didn't take the easy way out and publish the whole thing this morning
[3:17] Caliandris Pendragon: you then went on the blog and accused me of not checki9ng the facts!
[3:17] CaveCub Milk: but you HAVE YET to publish a retraction ADMITTING that you did not ask EVEN ONE QUESTION.. post that too would you???
[3:17] Caliandris Pendragon: the fact is your notecards DOES say that permission is required in writing
[3:18] CaveCub Milk is typing...
[3:18] CaveCub Milk: did you ask for clarification?
[3:18] CaveCub Milk: NO THATS THE CORRECT ANSWER
[3:18] Caliandris Pendragon: we have had a long conversation in which you said that you didn't know what was in your notecard!
[3:18] CaveCub Milk: ADMIT IT before you commit our company to a witch hunt.
[3:18] Caliandris Pendragon: you then went on the blog and accused me of not checking the facts
[3:18] Caliandris Pendragon: the fact is your notecard does say no photographs
[3:18] CaveCub Milk: YOU DID NOT CHECK the facts
[3:18] Caliandris Pendragon: I did
[3:18] Caliandris Pendragon: I had your notecard
[3:18] CaveCub Milk: you NEVER asked any question
[3:18] Caliandris Pendragon: I didn't need to I had it in writing!
[3:19] CaveCub Milk: or anything for clarification.
[3:19] Caliandris Pendragon: you shouldn't put out notecards that don't say what you mean
[3:19] Caliandris Pendragon: especially if you employ lawyers to write them for you
[3:19] CaveCub Milk: that's fine
[3:19] CaveCub Milk: take that position
[3:19] CaveCub Milk: we'll see.
[3:19] Caliandris Pendragon: we'll see what?
[3:19] Caliandris Pendragon: What fact in my story is not right?
[3:19] CaveCub Milk: i'm not going to argue with you .. the fact that you checked it out etc..
[3:20] CaveCub Milk: you did nothing more than come and collect a notecard.
[3:20] CaveCub Milk: that's it.
[3:20] CaveCub Milk: pretty slim checking out.
[3:20] Caliandris Pendragon: well if the notecard doesn't say what you want it to say it is within your power to change it
[3:20] Caliandris Pendragon: but you can't accuse me of not publishing the right facts when I haven't published anything incorrect AT ALL
[3:20] Caliandris Pendragon: I don't have to check things out - I am NOT a reporter
[3:21] CaveCub Milk: just becuase we are the FIRST company to do this don't hate on us for not getting it right the first time... you will soon see this in SL everywhere and THAT IS what you should report on to warm people cali.
[3:21] CaveCub Milk: and you know it
[3:21] Caliandris Pendragon: if I have put something wrong you can say so... but I note you haven't actually supported your assertion that I got it wrong with any facts at all
[3:21] CaveCub Milk: you did get it wrong and i posted that in our previous conversation .. go ahead and post it
[3:22] Caliandris Pendragon: fine - I have your permission to publish both conversations?
[3:22] CaveCub Milk: we can continue this for the next year but you as a person are not very considerate.
[3:22] Caliandris Pendragon: I will post them untouched, and unaltered
[3:22] CaveCub Milk: go for it.. show where i thanked you for calling this to my attention and that i said it will be looked at.
[3:22] CaveCub Milk: go for it.
[3:22] Caliandris Pendragon: that's a bit rich coming from someone who admitted he didn't know what was in his own notecard and then accused me of not checking facts
[3:22] CaveCub Milk: i do know what is in the notecard actually.
[3:23] Caliandris Pendragon: well then you have been playing games with me
[3:23] CaveCub Milk: and have always know.. i just didn't think some narrow minded newbie would misinterpret it the way you have.
[3:23] CaveCub Milk: post that too
[3:23] Caliandris Pendragon: you can insult me all you like
[3:23] CaveCub Milk: and play your game.. post.
[3:23] Caliandris Pendragon: you have put an over the top blanket ban on photography in your notecard and then criticised me for saying it is there
[3:24] CaveCub Milk: the reality is if you want to be productive is ..... that this type of thing is new yes.. but it is coming to SL
[3:24] CaveCub Milk: watch and see.
[3:24] Caliandris Pendragon: watch and see what the people do when you treat them like this
[3:24] CaveCub Milk: so you will see adjustments as companies adjust.
[3:24] Caliandris Pendragon: they will not put up with this sort of heavy handed treatment
[3:24] CaveCub Milk: look how you are treating our company posting your blantant rants like some forum flame.
[3:24] CaveCub Milk: what the hell kind of reporting is that???
[3:24] CaveCub Milk: is that for the good of SL??
[3:25] Caliandris Pendragon: tell me where I put one thing which is inaccurate
[3:25] Caliandris Pendragon: I will without hesitation retract anything I have said which is not right
[3:25] CaveCub Milk: i even agreed with you perhaps the notecard needs to be revised.. have you posted to your viewers that i said that????
[3:25] CaveCub Milk: and if not... why not???
[3:26] CaveCub Milk: cause you are on a witch hunt??
[3:26] CaveCub Milk: is that it??
[3:26] Caliandris Pendragon: If you hadn't been so busy telling them that I had my facts wrong - which I do NOT, then you'd have been able to do that yourself
[3:26] Caliandris Pendragon: and it would have been better PR for your company than accusing me incorrectlky of not checking facts
[3:26] CaveCub Milk: look we spend over 1k USD per month raising money for habitat for humanity.. and providing live music to fans etc.. at 0 profit to our company.
[3:26] CaveCub Milk: and if you want to destroy that or be on a witch hunt you go ahead.
[3:27] CaveCub Milk: it will show you true colors and your blogs true colors.
[3:27] Caliandris Pendragon: that's great, but if you do it by threatening legal action to people if they take photographs, that doesn't ameliorate the harm done
[3:27] CaveCub Milk: do you think i care about PR?
[3:27] Caliandris Pendragon: obviously not
[3:27] CaveCub Milk: exactly
[3:27] Caliandris Pendragon: or facts
[3:27] Caliandris Pendragon: or accuracy
[3:27] Caliandris Pendragon: or honesty
[3:27] Caliandris Pendragon: or the truth
[3:28] CaveCub Milk: that's because i SPEND money here providing entertainment fo rpeople and also RAISE fund for worthy real life causes.
[3:28] CaveCub Milk: and if you hate that .. then sobeit.
[3:28] Caliandris Pendragon: I dislike people accusing me of inaccuracy without foundation
[3:28] Caliandris Pendragon: and then using threats... yes I hate that
[3:28] CaveCub Milk: i ALREADY said perhaps the notecard needs to be revised.
[3:28] Caliandris Pendragon: but not in your comments in public
[3:28] CaveCub Milk: why don't you post that as its productive.. is it not???
[3:28] Caliandris Pendragon: in public you accuse me of getting it wrong
[3:29] CaveCub Milk: no, i said you got it wrong and the notecard both may be wrong.
[3:29] Caliandris Pendragon: not your own company's lawyers, or the person who checked the notecard
[3:29] CaveCub Milk: re-read my comments.
[3:29] Caliandris Pendragon: I got my story RIGHT
[3:29] Caliandris Pendragon: that your notecard is wrong isn't my fault, it's yours
[3:29] CaveCub Milk: i said in my comments that you got it wrong AND THE NOTECARD needs revisions.
[3:29] CaveCub Milk: post that.
[3:29] CaveCub Milk: because that is FACT.
[3:29] Caliandris Pendragon: how did I get it wrong
[3:29] Caliandris Pendragon: explain pleaqse
[3:30] CaveCub Milk: read our previous conversation.
[3:30] Caliandris Pendragon: so... I should have checked with your company meantthat you put in your notecard what you
[3:30] CaveCub Milk: the notecard as i said "IN PREVIOUS CONVERSATION" may not make that clear.
[3:30] CaveCub Milk: and it should.
[3:30] Caliandris Pendragon: ok - I will print both conversations...
[3:30] CaveCub Milk: i said that also
[3:30] Caliandris Pendragon: but you are still convinced that it is my fault I accurately reported your notecard
[3:31] CaveCub Milk: you did accurately report the notecard and you did call to our attention that revisions are necessary yes.
[3:31] Caliandris Pendragon: ok
[3:31] CaveCub Milk: that would be FACT
[3:31] Caliandris Pendragon: that's all I said, too
[3:31] CaveCub Milk: right
[3:31] Caliandris Pendragon: I didn't say anything other than that
[3:31] CaveCub Milk: right
[3:31] CaveCub Milk: so post that to your viewers and at least give us a chance to revise the stupid notecard
[3:32] CaveCub Milk: isn't that the most productive for SL?? and everyone???
[3:32] CaveCub Milk: and your viewers so they know that you have pursued the issue for them?
[3:32] Caliandris Pendragon: It owuld have been most productive for you to have posted, sorry folks, we got it wrong, and we're changing it...didn't intend to ban photographs, sorry!
[3:33] Caliandris Pendragon: then that would have been fair, and would have presented what you wanted to say
[3:33] CaveCub Milk: oh I WILL post that too
[3:33] Caliandris Pendragon: instead you went with stupid reporter didn't check the facts
[3:33] CaveCub Milk: no worries.
[3:34] CaveCub Milk: well i do have to admit that becuase you did not investigate as an investigative reporter.. that i thought you should have.
[3:34] Caliandris Pendragon: I thought after our conversation yesterday that you had accepted that the notecard was wrong, not me
[3:34] CaveCub Milk: but again you say you ar ea :blogger:
[3:34] CaveCub Milk: sure i did
[3:34] Caliandris Pendragon: I didn't expect that you would again accuse me of getting it wrong
[3:34] Caliandris Pendragon: I am NOT an investagative reporter
[3:34] Caliandris Pendragon: I am a blogger and may blog my opinions
[3:34] CaveCub Milk: but i also expected for you to post a responsible post regarding our conversation.. which you did not.. perhaps because of the time zone difference.
[3:35] CaveCub Milk: sure you can.
[3:35] CaveCub Milk: i do daily.
[3:35] CaveCub Milk: you should.
[3:35] Caliandris Pendragon: why should I post about our conversation? You confirmed that what I posted was true
[3:35] Caliandris Pendragon: even though it didn't reflect what you wanted to say, the fault was yours not mine
[3:35] CaveCub Milk: to at least include the parts of our conversation that says we are looking into it maybe?? and thank you caliandris for calling this to our attention???
[3:35] Caliandris Pendragon: I had no reason following our conversation to revise it
[3:36] CaveCub Milk: you certainly don't have to but it would be nice and responsible if you want to be subjective out things to your viewers
[3:36] Caliandris Pendragon: you could have done that on the comments and instead you chose to accuse me again of getting it wrong
[3:36] Caliandris Pendragon: I want to be objective, not subjective
[3:36] CaveCub Milk: well that's up to you.
[3:36] Caliandris Pendragon: and I feel that I was - if you have told me, you got that wrong and our notecard is right I would have posted an apology and revised it
[3:37] CaveCub Milk: all i am saying is why must you play the witch hunt party instead of being productive for SL??
[3:37] Caliandris Pendragon: me??
[3:37] CaveCub Milk: is that just your nature?
[3:37] Caliandris Pendragon: I posted the truth
[3:37] Caliandris Pendragon: you posted an untruth which was I got it wrong
[3:37] CaveCub Milk: about the notecard yes
[3:37] CaveCub Milk: i JUST SAID i will post that you got the notecard right and that we would be reviewing the notecard language.
[3:38] Caliandris Pendragon: The witch hunt thing is a figment, but you are continuing to try to make your own inefficiency with communication my fault
[3:38] CaveCub Milk: now if you want to post something saying.. you talked to us and we will be reviewing the notecard too.. then that's up to you.
[3:38] CaveCub Milk: because the fact is you DID NOT talk to us at all.
[3:38] CaveCub Milk: and you should have.
[3:38] Caliandris Pendragon: no
[3:38] Caliandris Pendragon: I am a blogger
[3:39] CaveCub Milk: you DIDN'T before you posted that article.
[3:39] Caliandris Pendragon: I can put my own opinion, I do not have to check facts like a reporter...I didn't need to because I went to the sim and got a copy of your notecard
[3:39] Caliandris Pendragon: The facts were in the notecard
[3:39] CaveCub Milk: exactly but it would have been nice if you did
[3:39] CaveCub Milk: which that is your choice but you are basing your article on un-clarified facts then.
[3:40] CaveCub Milk: and you might have wanted to dig a bit deeper
[3:40] Caliandris Pendragon: I am a blogger and not an investigative reporter
[3:40] CaveCub Milk: which you found out when we had our first conversation.
[3:40] CaveCub Milk: yes i realize that
[3:40] CaveCub Milk: and you are not obligated to check facts.. i get that.
[3:40] CaveCub Milk: but still you probably should have.
[3:40] Caliandris Pendragon: look
[3:41] Caliandris Pendragon: I will post both conversations and let people make up their own minds
[3:41] Caliandris Pendragon: because I've had it with going over the same ground over and over
[3:41] CaveCub Milk: great. :)
[3:41] Caliandris Pendragon: ok... thanks
[3:41] CaveCub Milk: yes me too
[3:41] CaveCub Milk: great.

Text of notecard: I have taken only the first part of the notecard, which is specific to Kokomo sim. It also includes general information about copyright and the LL process

OWNERSHIP OF KOKOMO ISLAND, OLD SALT'S PUB AND THE CREATIONS CONTAINED HEREIN:
Old Salt's Pub and Kokomo Island are divisions of the real world company OKPride.Net LLC and all creations created by the owners and managers of this sim and pub are copywritten by real world copyright laws. Any and all copyright infringement incidents will be prosecuted to the fullest extent allowable by law in real world courts utilizing the professional attorneys held on retainer by OKPride.Net LLC.

RECORDING, FILMING AND STILL PHOTOGRAPHS are strictly prohibited without first obtaining a written release from OKPride.Net LLC and any such infraction of this policy will be considered copyright infringement and pursued using all available resources in a real world court of law.

MUSICIANS, PERFORMERS AND ARTISTS
All musicians, artists and performers hired by Old Salt's Pub a division of OKPride.Net LLC may or may not have their own copyright policies and OKPride.Net LLC in no way endorses copyright infringement of any artists intellectual copywritten material. All recordings, video recordings and still photography of any artist, musician or performer should be cleared with "said" artists following "said" artists own individual copyright policies. Copyright infringement of an artist is not endorsed and may be prosecuted utilizing "said" artists legal resources. OKPride.Net LLC accepts no responsibility for any copyright infringement of ANY artist.