In case you hadn't noticed there is a new player on the SL media block: not another blogger, paid or unpaid, but SLCN.tv who are making television for Second Life. I was lucky enough to grab them all at the end of their working day and whilst I wouldn't say I pinned them down with my inquisitorial style, I did interview them about their hopes, aims and plans and a bit about how you too can be on SLCN.tv.
Just to introduce the team, we have, from left to right, Wiz Nordberg, Starr Sonic, Noel Finney (standing) and Texas Tintam. Interviewing, as is often the case in my experience when you interview any good and happy team, was akin to herding cats with each comment sparking more and more side comments from other team members. If that's any indicator, SLCN.tv is here to stay.
Texas and Noel both tend to push Wiz and Starr into the spotlight - most of the answers are from them. I'm trying to edit the responses together from each person when it makes sense, and to cut out a fair bit of the banter.
The interview in full under the fold
Eloise: How and where would you like your audience to see you?
Wiz Nordberg: We want our audience to see our producers' shows, not us :-) But, let me answer that properly. Our audience will see our shows on the web, at inworld screens, on their home viewers. They'll see it live "when it happens" and watch archives later, similar to the news or any other live TV show. SLCN is a reflection of second life, as RL television is a reflection of the real world. We hope, actually, to be a *better* reflection of SL though
Starr Sonic: The social experience of watching tv is great... and we like to produce content that has appeal to the in-world audience, so knowing our screens can be at venues and in homes of in-worlders is important to us.... so they get to see a window into their world and showing them content relevant to them. So in-world is important, but also there is a large audience of people unable to be inworld at the time of significant events, so streaming it out onto the web is another way that we can satisfy the needs of a diverse audience globally. Media plays a part in our RL as we believe media in SL needs to play a part for inworld audiences.
Texas Timtam: It was really great to see some of the things that the folks from the Best Practices in Education said about the SLCN coverage. It made a big difference to them and to the event.
Eloise: So, why are you doing this?
Wiz Nordberg: We see second life almost like a new country being born. People are creating, doing, determing their destinies, their laws, their society. Every country needs a cable network, right? to document, to provide insight, to rely upon.
Starr Sonic: I love alternative methods of media distribution, Second Life is one of the more promising platforms for that as it really engages directly with people and provide many layers of interaction and control. Second Life is just one of the most exciting new forms of social interaction and therefore is an ideal medium for the exchange of information and entertainment. It Rocks! In fact, there is too much going on for someone to get to everything. So our aim is to be there when things happen, and make it possible for people to see what happened even if they couldn't be there in person.
Noel Finney: Being a commercial animal, I see SLCN.TV as enabling people to view SL events without the difficulty some people find in getting in-world. Especially business people and educators who have an interest in using SL as a tool. They can view SL events on SLCN.TV and hopefully be enticed to join in the experience.
Texas Timtam: We are big SL evangelists - and one of the things SLCN does is give outsiders a keyhole view of some of the really amazing things that are going on *right now* in a place they can join. One of the reasons for so many accounts going dormant is because they don't yet get more out of SL than they are putting into it. That takes a bit of time and SLCN.TV is a bit incentive to participate in the party/dance/conversation/class/ you name it. As we get more and more regular programs that are really interactive TV we will see some of those dormant accounts get back in and start to participate.
Eloise: Ah, interesting point
Starr Sonic: Yes, it motivates people not to miss out on all this fun! On top of that I believe once film-makers see the opportunity to tell their stories for a fraction of the production costs, those creatives will flood to this format. For example, when you see the Molotov Alva film, you really see how compelling machinima made in Second Life can be.
Wiz Nordberg: We also believe that second life creates a new "alter ego" in everbody. introverts become extroverts. Shy people become bold and daring. In second life, there are many people who would LOVE being on TV that would shy away from that experience in RL. It expands the possibilites of people's lives. For example, Eloise, I'm not sure you dress the same way in RL as you do in SL. yet, how you dress here, and what you do is an important part of you somehow. Why should only the RL person have a chance to participate in media? It doesn't matter here though: you can show off the most amazing, daring, wonderful clothing in a fashion show that the world watches on SLCN. Now, from my perspective, that is simply TOO COOL not to do it.
Noel Finney: And yet Wiz, you and I still prefer our SLCN.TV t-shirts
Eloise: I know from chatting to Noel you're in the same city. How did you come together?
Starr Sonic: Three of us are in a 3 metre radius or a red wine bottle reach anyways hehe.
Wiz Nordberg: We have all worked together at some point in the past, before Second Life but it's an unlikely group. Texas and I are RL partners, and have had an entertainment web company for 12 years. We have done some of the largest entertainment web events ever done in australia, very large budget, large crew affairs. Starr worked for us at one point, but has always been too much of a free spirit to be tied down to a job. but, this is so exciting, we lured her into our clever little plot here :-) And Noel, he's the one who always asks "where's the money", which is good.
Texas Timtam: Yep, did lots of big live webcasts back in the heyday of live webcasts in Australia.
Eloise: So you have a media background too Starr?
Starr Sonic: Yes. I studied media, then wrote a guidebook Starr Sonic: worked in documentary, then web development, then combined the 2 to make an online documentary that won the Gold Hugo Award at the Chicago International Film Festival. As a producer that was my largest ever production: www.soundsliketechno.com
Noel Finney: I ran a commercial ICT consultancy business and used Wiz and Texas' company for many projects
Wiz Nordberg: When's your 100th noel?
Noel Finney: Last year
Texas Timtam: LOL
Eloise: OK, having had such a line... Can I ask roughly how old you all are? And how old in SL?
Wiz, Texas and Noel are similar in age, at around 50. Starr is "late 30's" and:
Wiz: Starr cannot, under contract, reveal her actual age
Starr Sonic: That's right. A lady should never have to!
Wiz Nordberg: She is an SLCN personality and has signed our standard celebrity disclosure agreement
Starr Sonic: particularly one using botox
Wiz was 1 in February, Texas in March. Starr will be one on the 16th of June, Noel is a couple of weeks younger than Starr.
Eloise: I know about SLBPE of course... is that the biggest thing you've covered in SL?
Wiz Nordberg: "biggest thing" hmm, what's the measurement of big?
Eloise: I don't know, how do you define big? From a tv perspective?
Noel Finney: I think the Bruce Willis gig was pretty big and the Texas Aussie music party. BPE attracted a lot of attention because educators are very active in SL.
Wiz Nordberg: That is a more complicated question than you might think at first. We think big is "yet to come." Was our Bruce Willis event "big"? to some, yes but the BPE created a more "inworld buzz" where inworld people were empowered and energized by the experience: they are big in different ways. To us, big is "how many lives were changed?" There are too many dimensions to "what is big". What is most "significant", "popular", or gives the most insight to us, learning how to empower people to do BIG THINGS is REALLY BIG. and that's our main effort.
Eloise: So, how did SLBPE do that? And how did Bruce Willis do it?
Wiz Nordberg: Bruce may not need empowerment as much as many of the BPE attendees. it's easier for Bruce. But to make some educator from Canada reveal something different he has done, in a way never before seen, that is something that takes things to the next level. Bruce Willis lends his personal "big" to Second Life. Second Life lends it's "big" to the BPE presenters, and we magnify both - there is the stock standard marketing answer. Die Hard 4.0 was the biggest thing we've done so far but that ignores so many important issues
Noel Finney: Eductaion is as big to us as Bruce Willis in the SL context
Starr Sonic: But the Bruce gig did empower Fox to show how the virtual world can be used to engage with a blockbuster film. It allowed people to walk through the set, jump onto props, dress in the costumes...all of this is amazing, and our coverage of the Die Hard exhibition enables that to be shared.
Eloise: Ok, now give me your personal answer?
Wiz Nordberg: During the best practices conference, i got an IM from somebody who said "i am baffled an amazed by what i am seeing". they were an intelligent, educated person whose opinion i respect. that, so far, was the biggest moment for me.
Texas Timtam: And don't rule out our very first pilot show. We broadcast a live music event to coincide with the Australian group that made the trip to SXSW in Austin. We had live performances doing showcase gigs from SL. These bands would *never* been able to afford to travel to Texas, but they participated in the event.
Wiz Nordberg: I agree also with texas. Making something possible that was IMPOSSIBLE before is big but the horizon contains far far far greater things.
Noel Finney: Big is being part of the next internet revolution
Starr Sonic: Ok, truthfully, on a personal level, I want to be sure that my peers look at what I am doing and actually say... that's cool... not... what the hell are you doing working with low res graphics and a weird computer thing!
Eloise: We've talked a bit about what you think is good with SL, at least tangentially, but what are the challenges?
Wiz Nordberg: lipsync :-)
Starr Sonic: um, not being able to teleport! On show day! When things are live! Also, as we've just tried today, working remotely with talent is difficult.
Wiz Nordberg: The biggest challenge, to me, is figuring out how to make it possible for ordinary people to do extrordinary things: it is easy to say "I have an idea for a TV show" but the truth is, producing TV shows is HARD, and full of pain, planning, meticulous detail. It is not easy to do TV, and our shows look like "tv productions" because we spend time, energy, and detail that most people would (and do) consider a waste of energy. We want to make it easier for people to do the extraordinary shows.
Starr Sonic: Sound is delayed and complicated... people are working in text chat.... difficult to get meaning across..... and then, there is a myriad of technical things to do on this end to facilitate all that.... and we only have limited hours and hands to complete the tasks that must be done
Noel Finney: Starr you are right, but then again we could never have done a fraction of this in RL.
Wiz Nordberg: We measure our production values against RL tv, not against "video podcasts", and have sent footage to RL stations where they considered our content "reasonably compatible" with what they normally do. Believe me, we are a small, tiny company, trying to do something enormous. but i am amazed at what we have achieved.
Eloise: OK. So, you produce RL TV quality output
Starr Sonic: We just filmed for our Channel 7 and it goes to air on Sunday night. They are really happy with what we supplied. In fact BBC used us too!
Eloise: Is that harder to do because you're doing it in SL? Easier? Swings and roundabouts?
Starr Sonic: We are creating an opportunity in SL. That is our focus 150%
Eloise: Let's take Bruce as an example... you covered him in SL when you couldn't really have done that IRL
Starr Sonic: Filming Bruce in studio has been done before, trillios of times, BORING. We are filming him inworld because for the very FIRST time, his fans were able to ask him a quesiton directly and have him respond: this is BIG
Eloise: You've experience of filming actors in studio for film I guess... as well as for here... So... extra challenges from SL? Things that were easier because it's in SL?
Wiz Nordberg: Well, we can film anyone anywhere in the world without having to send a film crew that is "special" to the extreme.
Wiz Nordberg: Eloise, can I ask you a question? If you could be on TV, would you rather be on RL TV, or SL TV, given that the audience sizes were (assume) the same?
Eloise: I've been on RL TV, no need to do that again. I've no special desire to have been on RL TV, nor on SL TV. I used to work in theatre... but I was a stage manager, and a lighting designer. I put people into the limelight, not much desire to be there personally.
Wiz Nordberg: LOL, i actually was just curious. it wasn't any kind of "planned question". i've never asked that before, it just occurred to me. I think that the two ARE different though. I'm similar actually. It's why I like doing SLCN. i love seeing Starr Sonic be a star. I'm not wanting to be one myself.
Noel Finney: Wiz's question is good. Hopefully as more and more people want to be on SLTV the environment will improve.
Wiz Nordberg: i believe, in all honesty, that SL "television" will become serious competition for shows like "The Simpsons" within the next 4 to 5 years.
Eloise: If I, or my readers, want to be part of SLCN.tv, what do they need to do? What sort of things do you want/need?
Wiz Nordberg: Just talk to us. Being committed and knowing that it takes work to bring ideas into fruition, that is the biggest ingredient people need to have. It's funny, a lot of people talk to us and the first thing they say is "they should do a letterman-like show" that's the "low hanging fruit".... the great successes of TV... people instantly, when they see SLCN say "simturday night live! i want to be a lindenairre! something like letterman!" People need to "be themselves" and do things that are important to them, and if they have the will, and the patience, and energy, and can work with us.... we want to put them on SLCN and make their show a great one.
Texas Timtam: We want to get people to produce shows that they are passionate about. If someone is already a voracious reader of sci-fi they should do a show about sci-fi [be that] sit-com, news, or drama.
Noel Finney: On Thursday and Sunday we have a session after That S'Life for people to talk TV. Also, there is a link at http://slcn.tv called Send us your pitch. It is in the section headed "Want to be on SLCN." People need to appreciate how much work it takes to produce something well and consistently well. That is why educators are successful in SL. They can teach the same syllabus year after year and try to keep it fresh and engaging.
Wiz Nordberg: On the other hand, we will teach them everything we know. send them templates, help them with their productions
Eloise: So, I'm guessing my readers don't really know how much effort it is... Say I'm passionate about something, pitch an idea and we agree it's a 15 minute documentary, how many hours of my time, and yours, are we talking, roughly?
Wiz Nordberg: Most people don't. but *some* are willing to take the chance and start to learn. We are like any network or studio, we have some "criteria." We want something that is a "regular show." We also want things which have a "live factor".... sports, news, lifestyle "on the spot" shows. We are doing a new show called "Paisley Beebe live" that will start in july. Paisley has a team of 4 people who have been working about 2-3 times per week for about 6 weeks on the show, and it will probably take another 3 weeks to get there. [Some hard numbers eventually came out, to give some sort of indication] We do "That S'Life" twice per week. Starr takes about 4 hours per show to research, gather material, and send prep work (graphics, etc) to the studio for preparation. Then, we get into the studio and hour early, do 2 "taped rehearsals" and the show goes live at 4PM. the show lasts 5 minutes. done.
Texas Timtam: Right. But someone (not us) needs to write the script, plan the staging, reherse a bit. Think of it as a little theater production every week.
Wiz Nordberg: If you have a script for a drama, then things may be different. the script writing may take most of the time. If it's a news program, the quesiton is, how quickly can you deliver the news. If you are naturally funny, and everything you say makes people's sides burst open, there may be zero preparation. you just show up. There is no formula for good entertainment, that's the short version.
Eloise: So there's about 8 person-hours work to get a 5 minute show out live, For That S'Life? 4 hours of Starr (the producer), then 4 of you for an hour before it goes out?
Wiz Nordberg: That gives you a "feel for it" i hope
Eloise: I think so, thanks.
Wiz Nordberg: Also, people are not only pitching an idea, but pitching their TIME if people have the time and energy to spend, and if we believe they have the "follow through", we'll take a chance on them
Starr Sonic: There will be few overnight successes for a while and we are not licensing per se. We are revenue splitting, so the producers need to invest like we do!
Although not strictly part of the interview, the SLCN.tv sim is support some open access learning run by Desideria Stockton and likely, in the interests of full disclosure, to be largely built by yours truly. I'm not quite sure how this fits into their vision as espoused here, but we'd like to thank them for their support.
I'd like to thank them as well for their time and patience, and their full answers and their insight into making high quality TV from and for Second Life.
