1. What it is is a lot of people putting clothes out in SL don't have anything original to offer. Since money is a big attracter for SL you have a lot of "casino" types that essentially make clothes by taking pictures of clothes from catalogs and just photoshop them to make a shirt or whatever. These are the same people that think SL is a viable business platform and complain whenever the game isn't working...which is a lot.

The only people in SL that don't need to worry about being accused of making knock-offs are the ones that build stuff to be creative instead of profitable. If anything, for them profit is secondary if thought of at all. A lot of the best builders I know don't even sell their stuff!

Posted at 11:32AM on Sep 21st 2007 by SqueezeOne Pow

2. If I am a Sprite and somebody makes that cylinder with a logo, I should just say thanks. It is not making the fake drink with branded name, it is free advertising. Coca-cola had that situation.

Posted at 12:15PM on Sep 21st 2007 by dandellion Kimban

3. From a straight-up money standpoint, it is almost never "worth it" to sue a trademark infringer -- not in the real world, and definitely not in the virtual one. The reason you police infringement of your mark is to protect the brand image (e.g. Sprite might be fine with a vending machine, but not so much if it's in the corner of a bestiality sim) and to protect the space in case you do want to enter it later (for Sprite, sponsoring concerts, or something like that). There's a legal argument that if you fail to police misuse, you've abandoned the mark in that space.

That all said, I'd advise companies hire infringers to work for the brand or even sell them a license with some restrictions rather than just firing off a lawsuit. Often, there's a better solution than suing, but a company that starts negotiation has to be prepared to file a suit if it comes to that.

Posted at 1:26PM on Sep 21st 2007 by Benjamin Duranske

4. I like this article. It addresses in brief, one of the major hurdles that will probably take a while to get worked out. For sure though, Sprite, is a RL product. And, regarding the type of sim Sprite may or may not want it's logo flashed around in, consider the casinos, strip clubs, etc., that it gets flashed around in in the RL. I don't think they would care too much in SL, so long as it helps their bottom line in some way. It is free advertising. However, in RL, they have much more control over that than there is in SL. But, RL laws do apply, and it is THEIR trademark, to use and sue to protect if they wish.

Same goes for clothes and the like. But if there is a market to come for clothing in SL, if the L$ ever becomes something with real value, rather than being a fictional money (TOS says so), then RL clothing manufacturers may see a real market in SL, and would perhaps wish to make a stand, and immerse their brand and products in SL.

I'd like to see more about the creative side for now in SL. There's some very talented creators, and I don't have any qualms with, and enjoy supporting their efforts and time, even if it's only fictional L$ that I have invested in with RL money or time to acquire, even as I'm uncomfortable with what the TOS says regarding the "any reason, or no reason" clauses.

Some people though, see an issue already with TM stuff, as in the Appl$tore. Their computers, while very Mac like, don't use the real Apple logos or name. And, if Apple made an SL store, I'd love to visit it, and I'm sure, they would develop some interesting products that could have some SL behaviors that would make the experience in SL, more tangible and useful, as computers are the in the real. Sprite however, doesn't quench a non-existent, SL thirst. It's just a logo, and a branding or fan based idea.

I like original ideas a lot. And I like to wear Levi's jeans in RL. Levi's doesn't have an SL presence, so it's still up to us, the users, to create it for them, or rather, for us, if want our avatars to wear 501 jeans. The strength of RL brands and loyalties could be an area that's being overlooked by RL companies at this point. But then, L$ is still fictional, so I understand completely, why they don't care too much about the SL market. They are more concerned with RL bottom lines, as they should be. SL is just advertising to them for now, and not too many are concerned about that aspect either yet...some are, but not many. I'm glad their not either.

I love the fact that, even if it's not too real, the market and business aspect of SL, is producing or at least, providing many of us with an opportunity, to be creative and express our talents, without having to deal with restrictions and such, such as what we face in the RL. Some of the creators in SL, if they could do in RL what they do in SL, would certainly be supported by me in RL. How about a texture changing couch? Or, touch a Sprite, and have it change flavors?

Many of the money driven in SL are creating crap, selling freebies, sometimes as is, and their products aren't all that original, and don't have much value for me. I do pay for quite a bit though, but I look for very creative and attractive objects, and often, very useful objects...all with low prim counts of course. I don't have any Sprite though...no use, and it would increase prim count, and lag. My Appl$store computer though, has a visitor counter, a picture changer, and an in-world email server. I was happy to pay for that. You could pay me to have a Sprite, but there is a prim count issue, and no real SL use, and it would be fictional L$ anyway, so it would have to be a lot of L$...unless they came to me and said they'd give me RL $ for a Sprite machine in SL on my land.

That's just me.

Posted at 3:50PM on Sep 21st 2007 by zenmonk

5. True true Cube3. Although, I don't know I could classify every avatar out there, as a thief who's not creating from scratch, original work. Sometimes copying when there's no other way to bring in something someone is passionate about can't be, or at least, has some gray area around it being an act of infringement. I bought an Appl$tore computer in-world. I love Macs. Apple doesn't have a presence. I would buy a virtual iMac from Apple in-world. That's what I was originally looking for. I was a bit sad when I couldn't find one. It is a fictional product though, and I don't own the computer I bought in-world though, with fictional money. It's hard to call that infringing or thievery, on the part of the Appl$tore, or myself. The in-world computer I "own" doesn't have the actual Apple logo on it, and I wish it did. But Apple would have to make that a reality...it's their TM. Major kudos though to the Appl$tore though. I love the in-world remake. It's clearly a copy though in form, of course, not function. And, it took a lot of work to produce and build, and provide the functionality that it does have. There's clearly talent in the build and function on the part of the creator. If I were Apple, I'd hire the creator in a second, unless of course I had someone in house, already working on something, or who had more skills and talent, which I'm sure they do. Still though, Apple is losing out on my monopoly money, and being able to build their brand in SL. We are doing it for them though, and they allow many to do that in RL, with TV and movie spots, etc., where their product is clearly visible, and recognizable, and they had nothing to do with the product placement. There are fans in the media industry as well, who receive no compensation for Apple product placements. They're not thieves by doing that either, at least that's not their intent.

Some do have that intent though in SL. It is best to be careful, and get to know the avatars, and the culture that surrounds what they do. There's a few pirates out there, selling pirated movie streams in SL. But the quality is horrible compared to RL DVD movies, pirated or legally obtained. I prefer to pay for my movies legally, in any respect. But it is fun to experiment in SL with movies, just for the purpose of experimenting and seeing what can be done. Doesn't have to be done though, with RL movies. Original works and creativity is something I value much more highly, so long as it's good quality, or relevant to my interests. Paying for that is at once saying thank you, and encouraging more to be produced that I can enjoy in the future. Else, they'll go away. Simple economics.

Posted at 4:26PM on Sep 21st 2007 by zenmonk

6. Benjamin, and zenmonk, bring up interesting points on this. If you're interested in bringing a "knockoff" product into SL it might really be worth your while to call up the real company first! They might actually be willing to let you represent their brand for free or even pay you if your model of their product is high-quality enough. Doing it the other way around does feel like rewarding criminal behavior.

I think people also have a habit of mixing up in SL what are different categories of infringement in RL. For instance AFAIK you can make and sell nearly identical fashions and accesories in RL just as long as you're not trying to represent them as actual products of another brand.

Above I used the word "model" because I imagine this is the closest analogy to what people are really doing in making "knockoff" SL products. What are the precedents in this area? What kind of deals does Mattel make when they put out a line of model cars or dress up their Barbies in designer clothing? What kind of deals do the makers of Gran Turismo make to put models of real cars into their racing games?

Posted at 6:33PM on Sep 21st 2007 by Ananda

7. "That all said, I'd advise companies hire infringers "

thats crappy advise----
companies should hire professionals(accountable and real) and license them to reproduce items for marketing or sales purposes in a new medium...

hireing the prior (anonymous for the most part) " thieves" -avatars- and expecting them not act as thieves anymore should be the advise of priests, not lawyer's.;)

but then again, unlike priests, lawyers are rewarded no matter who win's....

cube3

Posted at 8:59PM on Sep 21st 2007 by cube3

8. As one whos worked on those type of products-virtual and real-- for many years i can tell you to look closer at those products.:) youll see GENERAL MOTORS or NIKE or whomevers designs and properties ar being used, credited and paid for by Mattel;)

Also-- btw- ip infrigment law has alot to to with "confusion" thus similar designs logos or of plastic cases per say are all protected IP by realife companies and are subject to legal protection and possible actions against those who copy them outside fair use or even somertimes personal usage ways....

remember- a few years ago a teacher who painted Mickey Mouse on a school wall, recieved a legal letter from Disney "requesting its removal" in order to protect their mousescots IP.;)
cube3

the reality that Linden is either going to be bought or need to go public in a year or so will end the IP issues that many of you seen to be unaware of, as quickly as the casinos closed, all content not proven or generally accepted as original and owned by its "creator" tag in SL will be gone....

those of you investing enormous sums of money in Firefly, Star Trek or Star Wars sims, and selling that IP stuff for real dollars, should all prepare now....:)

and yes,the majority of my own c3 retro vendor items will go away..as they really should;) so buy original, buy starbase c3, and support those really creating the metaverse,not exploiting its loopholes. im not a lawyer or a preist, so ill reform from my minor shoplifting infrigements...:)feeling very human.

Posted at 9:01PM on Sep 21st 2007 by cube3

9. i agree with squeezeone pow, while I would like to make money isl, profit does not drive me. if interested, search for Gallery Art Monkey and see what just the creative side of me is building.

it is so creative, and rewarding, not via $$$, but accolades and socialization. i used to spend hours in blender, which i still love, but i can create pretty neat things isl and have people use them.

as for circle C and TM, well, it's a new age and mashups are typically not for profit, so perhaps creative expression is okay with brands. i am torn on that topic however and it far more complicated than my mind can wrap itself around. thanks squeezeone pow!

Posted at 8:50PM on Sep 24th 2007 by enerhax