1. I found it funny that when I went (teleported to the parcel next to it), a child AV had a BDSM group title and was in a "whipping fetish" group on that parcel. Oh my! =O

Posted at 1:10AM on Oct 31st 2007 by nimrod

2. Nimrod, that is guilt by association. Group membership does not make an Av bad.

Me? Well I was a child player but became adult due to the grief I suffered and needs which could not be met. I have a number of BDSM groups and I also have a number of Kid associated groups.

I still class myself as a Kid in Second life.

I am in child form just some of the time, yet I still carry the adult groups. I do not frequent sexual places in child form, I don't bring reputable tags into disrepute.

I dislike Wonderland, not for that they are expressing their desires, but because they bring decent kids into disrepute. Their selfish actions, in the light of LL and in particular Robin's failure to clarify a clear line, means we are put at risk.

Despite the fact I believe EVERYONE should have the right to express their kinks, perversions and desires in SL this, just in RL, must never be to the detriment of other people.

Wonderland is not evil, Robin Linden's lack of action is. If she thinks wonderland is acceptable then the FEAR of two like aged kid avatars being permabanned and deleted for PRIVATE sexual encounters in skyboxes that permeates the entire community and has shifted us off onto private sims is unjustified.

Robin MUST lay the policy out clearly. What is broadly offensive?

Posted at 1:55AM on Oct 31st 2007 by Jay

3. So we have communication channels closing and now we have double talk through one of the remaining channels. Are they trying to undermine the confidence of the world and their user base?

Given the current uproar about TV shows "faking it" in the UK, I'd be willing to bet every penny I own the story in the news was true. It might not be complete in the sense of not showing every second of the reporters Second Life, but it's fundamentally correct.

The person from the NSPCC on the news report was a bit less certain there's nothing objectionable about having a child avatar, but even with that, it's not what they were reporting. If Sky News or Channel 5 news can go in and find it that quickly, how can Linden Lab not? It strikes me that, as I commented earlier, there's overstretch in LL: someone didn't do the job, probably several people if there have been a steady stream of ARs. Will someone tell us what the process is internally so we can see where it might have gone this badly wrong?

Posted at 2:07AM on Oct 31st 2007 by Eloise Pasteur

4. Here it is:

Date: Tuesday, October 30, 2007
Violation: Community Standards: Broadly Offensive Content or Conduct
Region: Nemo
Description: Inappropriate ageplay vendors.
Action taken: Suspended 3 days.


Suspended 3 days? What happened to permaban and deletion? Have the kids been living under the NoSex rule since March for no reason?

What is the policy Robin? What is Broadly Offensive?

Posted at 2:27AM on Oct 31st 2007 by Jay

5. Not *at all* jay. I don't hate child AVs at all in SL, only when it becomes sexual. When someone switches from an adult AV, to a child AV, they BDSM group title should be changed with it.

Posted at 3:57AM on Oct 31st 2007 by nimrod

6. @nimrod, do you *really* always remember what tag you have on? I sure don't. Jay's point is well taken, i.e. that we should slow down and think before throwing stones, especially when these are based on false presumptions or mass hysteria.

I think it is LL's interest (and all of ours) to be *very* careful about going down the slippery and quite fascist road of "thought policing" interplay between consenting adults which does not harm anyone else. As to presumptions that virtual activities lead to real (illegal) activities, if you really believe that then there are a *whole* lot of movies and books we better start burning, from Agatha Christie to Ocean's Eleven. Even the US Supreme Court (hardly a bastian of liberalism) has recognized such virtual activities as protected free speech.

As the saying goes, "I may not like what you say, but I will fight for your right to say it." Well, there's a lot of stuff I don't like in SL (e.g. guns and violence), but I really don't think it's for me to tell other consenting adults what they can do or not do, so long as they're not harassing me.

Posted at 9:51AM on Oct 31st 2007 by Disappointed

7. Generally, Tigro, it happens as soon as it takes place outside the bedroom. Even private servers and the web start to run afoul of the law. Bedrooms have a certain sanctity by precedent, but a bedroom in a virtual world whether public or private doesn't have the same protection.

Posted at 10:55AM on Oct 31st 2007 by Tateru Nino

8. at which point two adults wearing good quality costumes while having "cybersex" becomes ilegal? this is bullshit why should people be punished for doing grownup stuff with other grownups that agreed with that?

LL really needs to open the grid ASAP so people can be free on SL as they are on the rest of the internet, that way people would have to respond to their own actions, if they do stuff that gets in the jurisdiction of some law, instead of havving loud people scaring LL while they are cleaning their guns :/

Posted at 11:11AM on Oct 31st 2007 by TigroSpottystripes Katsu

9. Second Life is a 3D virtual world in which all the content is created and owned by its Residents.

Now we own it again? Nice! I already thought that dropping those words was a mistake.

Posted at 7:22PM on Oct 31st 2007 by Vint Falken

10. "Second Life is a 3D virtual world in which all the content is created and owned by its Residents." doesn't mean the same thing as the older phrase "Second Life is a 3D online digital world imagined, created and owned by its residents"

Note the use of 'content' in the first usage, and the implication in the second that ownership includes land.

Posted at 10:54PM on Oct 31st 2007 by Tateru Nino

11. We as a former lawman I know human nature very well. First the fantasies an individual has almost always manifest themself in RL at some point. If theres child BDSM activity in ones thoughts and practices in SL, then its very possible those desires can and will be translated into the real life. I think its time linden ban all child play in sl and the people that practice it period.

Posted at 9:20AM on Nov 1st 2007 by Rip

12. I find it sad that people need to go out of there way to get into the private business of others. "If they fantasize about it, they might do it" is a lame and ignorant excuse for individuals/groups to try and get rid of something they don't agree with.

Posted at 9:37AM on Nov 1st 2007 by Mecha Dinosaur

13. @Rip, I assume then that you favor banning or destroying *all* fictional or virtual media which portray criminal activities? This covers a really large swath of books, movies, computer games, etc. Does the state have the right to presume guilt on the basis of what it thinks someone *might* do? Protecting real kids is indeed extremely important - but insofar as we are in the realm of thoughts and not acts, so are civil liberties. I regard "thought policing" by the state as a step on the slippery path to fascism.

Posted at 11:09AM on Nov 1st 2007 by Did someone say civil liberties?

14. There is probably a good chance some of the adults who were soliciting child sex fantasies also are involved in actual child porn. The reporter could have gathered information and given it to authorities. The authorities could then go undercover and track down actual criminals distributing real child porn. They might have even had an operation in place. Now any such people have been alerted and are now covering their tracks, thus foiling any real investigation.

Think about that for a minute. Any potential child pornographers in that area who might have been brought to justice will now be getting away with it for awhile longer. How many real children will continue to be victimized as a direct result?

Well done, Sky News. I hope the story was worth it.

-Rav

Posted at 2:14PM on Nov 1st 2007 by Rav

15. First the came for the ageplayers and I said nothing because I was not an ageplayer. Then they came for the BDSM players and I said nothing because I was not a BDSM player. Then they came for the Goreans and I said nothing because I was not a Gorean. Then they came for the casino operators and I said nothing because I was not a casino operator. Then they came for me and their was no one left to speak for me.

Posted at 1:10PM on Nov 2nd 2007 by Linda

16. When the freedoms of man outweigh the protection of our children, then we have really become a sick world whether in our First or our Second lives. There should be no way that a child ever have access to a site that is full of adult material. And lets be honest..whether its two adults pretending or not. If there is a chance that a child could see acts of beastiality, sodomy, homosexuality, rape, prostitution, cyber sex, and the list i am sure can go on. Then as responsible adults and as a responsible business entity everything should be done to prevent it. And until this prevention is in place, there is no excuse. I am a second life user and I have three accounts. It is over easy to get around Lindons system of protection and anyone out there ready to abuse the system will do so until something more secure is in place. Free speach comes with responsibility. And the internet should never be considered a haven for people to do and act as they please. There should be accountability.

Posted at 10:19PM on Nov 2nd 2007 by RHill

17. ok ppl first things first this is a gamy fantasy nothing is real here it is nothing more then a program a bunch of code on the screen where you or anyone else can come and do what ever you like LL has a no minor law so its all adults here (act like it) first of all kid AVs are just that kid AVs there are no real children behind them and if there is report them ASAP they have teen SL

second of all if i where to look anywhere in SL you will find hookers dose not mean im going to rent one and do what ever with her its part of sl and im shure allways will.

3rd of all do not go arounf and judge people you know nothing about unless you yourself want to be judged. if you do not like something in SL then just walk away and find something you do injoy, I dont care what it is Adults are old enough to know what they want to do.

"AGEPLAY" is all over SL no one is playing there own age in SL anyways and yes that is considerd "AGEPLAY" be it PG or not. so insted of looking for the bad in SL look for what you think is the good and focus on that besides after all you are on SL for your injoyment not others.

if it does not efect you then you really do not have the right to interfear with others here in SL

4th Respect others and you yourself will be respected with out respesct you have nothing.

5th and last thing live and let live injoy yourself on SL dont let people tell you what is rite or wrong your here for you not them if they dont like it then ignore them I'm for freedom of choice on SL and will fight for anyones right to do what they want to do weather I like it or not its not up to me to deside that for them nor is it antones right to do so. Like it says on Secondlafes webpage a world created for you by you. that is what it should be what i do in or on my land in SL is up to me if i want to have my af beat off for hours or if i want to pretend to mow the lawn dont you think that is up to me to deside? write or wrong the choice is mine what i do in privet is my bussness no one elses

if you dont like it trurn around and walk away I am sure you will find something you do like.

Posted at 3:16AM on Nov 3rd 2007 by snarfing

18. (14) You are absolutely right. I used to play accordion, and I am absolutely sure some of these immoral people are involved with accordions in some way or other.

Please, let us ban accordions. The are morally reprehensible, and they sound horrid.

Think about that for a minute. Any potential accordion players in that area who might have been brought to justice will now be getting away with it for awhile longer. How many people will continue to be victimized as a direct result?

Posted at 3:57PM on Nov 19th 2007 by Socrates

19. HAHAHA Are you guys for real, common sence tells you, if you have any that you are talking about adults role-playing, ahhaha i cant believe any of this nonsence, to think that children are being sexually abused is one thing, first of all because they are innocent. but to think that you guys are wondering if it is a child on the other end of a role-playing molester is straight stupid.. Why would a grown up MOLESTER would want to do this with a child. HAHAHA would the child even know how to cybersex DUHHHH I think all of you idiots need to get your minds checked. No wonder this world is so messed up, look at what you waste you time on stupid things like this why dont you guys go out and worry about feeding a homeless or sheltering one. Put you energy to good use then talk about it on the internet, at least you wouldn't sound so dumb....

Posted at 10:55AM on Dec 6th 2007 by adormy

20. @ Rip - To say that someone who thinks about something will then go out and do it is just SO wrong. If that were the case then all writers of mystery books, murder novels and movie directors who have ever directed something that had an unlawful scene in it should all be arrested on the spot, right? Because they'll go out and commit what ever crime they have though about and have written ... which in your thinking is all the proof you need to be judge and jury. Consenting adults in costumes are not guilty of anything at all. Sorry to ruffle your handcuffs.

Posted at 11:23PM on Dec 12th 2007 by HipLife